Festivals - FCAD 2024 : Greg Kwedar and Clint Bentley Discuss the Power of Redemption in Sing Sing

By Mulder, Deauville, Hôtel Barrière Le Royal , 09 september 2024

At the 2024 Deauville American Film Festival, Sing Sing, directed by Greg Kwedar, made a powerful impression with its portrayal of art as a means of redemption within the confines of a maximum-security prison. Inspired by the real-life Rehabilitation Through the Arts (RTA) program at Sing Sing Prison, the film follows a group of incarcerated men who find hope and purpose through their participation in a theater troupe. The emotional depth of the film, strengthened by Colman Domingo’s standout performance and the inclusion of real-life RTA participants such as Clarence Divine Eye Maclin, deeply resonated with audiences. The authenticity brought by these real-life participants added a profound emotional weight to the story, making it a standout at this year’s festival. We had the opportunity to interview the director and screenwriter Greg Kwedar and Clint Bentley.

Q: First, congratulations on an amazing film! The audience really applauded at the end, and I personally loved it. Could you share what originally inspired you to tell the story of the Sing Sing Rehabilitation Through the Arts program ?

Greg Kwedar: Sure, thank you. We’ve been working on this movie for over eight years and came across the story quite unexpectedly. I was producing a short documentary eight years ago in Kansas; it was my first time ever behind the walls of a prison. On a tour of the facility, we were doing a documentary about something else, but I passed by a cell and saw a young man raising a rescue dog inside the cell. It immediately stopped me in my tracks because it upended all the expectations I had about prison and incarcerated people from the movies I grew up watching. But here in this cell, I was witnessing healing happening in both directions between this man and this animal, and I felt the compassion and care. That night, in the hotel room, I was just desperate to know if there was anyone else out there doing things differently. I found Rehabilitation Through the Arts very quickly on the internet in New York. They had been around since 1996, founded by a woman named Katherine Bodkins alongside several incarcerated men, and they’ve been putting on plays ever since. I came across a very odd and unusual play in an Esquire magazine article about a time-traveling musical comedy called Breaking the Mummy’s Code, and I was so struck by the joy of the process for the men. Every production exists in such a dark environment—Sing Sing, one of the world's most infamous prisons—but this was something that really made me want to feel the same joy that these men felt, and I wanted to share that with Clint.

Q: The film balances both the harsh realities of prison life and the moments of beauty and transformation through the arts. What were the key themes you wanted to highlight in Sing Sing ?

Greg Kwedar: The key themes we wanted to highlight... I think exactly what you just outlined was a big thing for us from the beginning. These men, in this very dark place, have all come for different reasons and gotten there differently, but they’re all there to look ahead now and think about what’s next. They are trying to find a better path for their lives and find release—whether that’s physical or just mental and emotional. That was always something we were trying to highlight as we were figuring out the script along the way.

Q: The story touches on the humanity of the incarcerated men. How did you approach crafting a narrative that avoids stereotyping prisoners and instead focuses on their potential for growth and change ?

Clint Bentley: That was very important to us along the way—avoiding stereotypes and just showing the men as people. We crafted the story in such a way that something that kind of became the beacon was focusing on the friendship at the center of it. As we were telling the story of this play coming together, we really focused on the friendship of these men as it develops and grows and changes. The community they hold together became the most important thing.

Q: Greg, Colman Domingo's portrayal of John Divine G. Whitfield is incredible. What was the casting process like for his role, and how did he prepare to embody such a complex character ?

Greg Kwedar: Well, we landed on that friendship narrative quite late in the process—it was about six years into development. We were going to start over with a new script, and as we settled on this vision of telling a story of friendship, the key plot points of that story fell into place very quickly. In about ten minutes, I wrote it down in a notebook. At the very bottom of the page, I just wrote, "Colman Domingo as Divine G." It was just an instinctual feeling that he was the one to play this part. We reached out to his team through our manager, and two months later, we were on a Zoom call with him. We didn’t have a script to share because we were starting over; we didn’t have a budget. We only had the Esquire magazine article and six years of experience and stories to share. He got on Zoom with us and heard about the journey we had been on. At the very end of that conversation, he said, "At this point in my career, I’m realizing that some projects are seeking you to teach you something. You don’t know what it is, but you know it’s trying to, and I’m saying yes to that at this point in my life. I’ve got three weeks open in July." I was like, "We’ll take them!" I think he was also very attracted to the fact that there was an open canvas here, that he could really step in with the fullness of who he was as an artist. He’s not just one of our great actors—he’s a writer, director, playwright, and producer. This was a project he could bring all of that to bear on, really helping to shape that character. To your question about how he built it, he very early on set an intention for his character: "I want it to be about three things—I want it to be honest, I want it to be elegant, and I want it to be tender." That was a valuable distillation of what we knew about the real Divine G. and the men in the program, and it became a lens by which we built it alongside him. He had some conversations with the real Divine G., which were instrumental in forming his role, but he also likes to have space to find his own way into the character. That was different from Paul Rey, who plays Brent. He worked very closely with Brent throughout the entire production. Actors have their own way and their own process.

Q: Clarence Divine Eye Maclin plays himself in the movie. What was it like working with someone who has lived the experiences the film portrays? How did he influence the direction of his character ?

Clint Bentley: I’ll say, in terms of building the character with him—and maybe Greg can speak to directing him and working with him in that way—he plays somebody who is based on his own life, but it’s very much a character in the way that it’s built. What he does with that performance is incredible. We wouldn’t have been able to build such a complex character without knowing him and without him building it with us. He brought so much of his own life to it and so much of his own experiences—not only the events in the movie but also the interiority that he brought to it and the understanding of that situation. We would never have been able to do it without him. He’s just such a brilliant actor, but also a brilliant person—so thoughtful. It just made everything much better.

Q: Paul Raci also plays a pivotal role in the film. How did you decide to cast him, and how did his character help shape the dynamic of the theater troupe in the story ?

Greg Kwedar: That was a very hard role to cast because if you cast the wrong person, it could be the type of part where the actor comes in and draws all the attention to themselves. Paul Rey is the kind of actor who exudes a ton of warmth. He can own the screen when it’s his time, but he has a generosity of spirit as an actor that allows him to operate within the context of the community and let other men have the focus. We’ve seen a lot of movies about the teacher going into the program, but this is a different point of view, accessed through the members themselves. Paul plays a very valuable role as an instructor and facilitator. His character is based on Brent Bule, a man we know very well, who was involved with us throughout the development process. Brent is a very unique individual, and it wasn’t about copying him, but getting the spirit and essence of that person right.

Q: Greg, the use of real formerly incarcerated men as part of the cast gives the film a unique authenticity. How did their involvement impact the filming process and the atmosphere on set ?

Greg Kwedar: On every level—almost at a molecular level, I would say. They are the life force of the movie. We had thirteen alumni from this program in our cast, so they are the cast in so many ways. They are also very proud of this program and their work within it, as individuals. They were like the shepherds, preserving what this was really like—how this process really works and unfolds. They also brought a lot of enthusiasm for being in their first film, which was really rejuvenating for all of us.

Q: Shooting in decommissioned correctional facilities must have posed challenges. Could you describe how that environment shaped the film’s tone and how you managed the emotional weight for both the cast and crew ?

Clint Bentley: It definitely presented challenges to shoot in decommissioned prisons. There were the physical challenges we all went through trying to make the movie. These environments are very unforgiving—there’s no air conditioning, the air is dead, it’s all concrete floors. But the more difficult thing was, in some ways, for the men from RTA who were coming back in. They had to put on the greens they had worn long ago and go back into a facility. But it became, ultimately, a very cathartic experience for them. Collectively, they had a sense of catharsis from going through this process. It was beautiful to see them go through that, and now the greens they were putting on were not something forced on them by a governmental body—it was a costume they chose to put on and take off at the end of the day.

Q: I heard the film was shot on 16mm film. What motivated that choice, and how do you feel it added to the overall visual storytelling ?

Greg Kwedar: All the credit is due to Pat Scola, our cinematographer, who believed this movie belonged on that format. He made both a practical and emotional case for it. The practical case being that we didn’t have the budget to fully build out these environments and fully light them in ways that, you know, the digital eye sees all. Film is a very forgiving medium; a lot can kind of fall away into the background. We also shot a lot of the movie at high noon, and film is gorgeous in daylight in a way that digital might need sunrise and sunset to achieve. But I think the main thing was this is a movie really about human faces, and the textures and stories that a face can tell are brought alive in a very special way on film.

Q: Greg, the contrast between the cold prison environment and the warmth of the theater program is striking. Can you tell us how you worked with cinematographer Pat Scola to achieve that look ?

Greg Kwedar: It was about embracing a language for those different worlds and not trying to have a set of all-encompassing rules visually. One thing we really talked a lot about in coming up with the approach was to have the camera be confined in a way that people are inside the prison. A lot of it is very locked off, very formal. We were inspired by photographs from Sing Sing in the 1960s of men waiting in long lines, and we felt like that was an important motif to bring into the movie. Then, when you enter the theater, it’s like, "How does the camera get to bloom and come alive, like the men do?" The camera has freedom of movement, it interacts, it dances—it becomes its own character. Those were the two real hallmarks among many other decisions in the process.

Q: The play within the movie, Breaking the Mummy's Code, is a unique choice. What was the inspiration for choosing this specific production as the centerpiece of the inmates' theater program ?

Greg Kwedar: That came from the very beginning, eight years ago, that night in a hotel room. We knew there could be a movie within RTA from reading any article about any production. But there’s something very challenging about dramatizing a drama program. If you were to dramatize them putting on a dramatic play inside such a dramatic environment, it could become melodrama. Breaking the Mummy’s Code is this wonderful ballast to the realities of this facility. It might seem silly to some, but to these men, it was life or death—a beautiful light to hold onto that kept them going.

Q: The film touches on redemption, forgiveness, and the transformative power of art. How do you hope audiences will react to these themes, especially in the context of a prison setting ?

Clint Bentley: I think what we’re finding is that audiences are feeling a deep connection to these men, and they’re thinking about the power of redemption and the power of art in their own lives. In a way, they’re connecting with men who are largely forgotten by society—purposely forgotten by society—and they’re inspired by them, just as we were so many years ago. It’s been a joy to see.

Q: It’s clear the film presents the arts as a powerful tool for rehabilitation. How do you see this message fitting into the broader conversation about prison reform and the justice system ?

Greg Kwedar: There’s a quite staggering statistic related to the effectiveness of this work and the transformative process of this program. In the United States, the recidivism rate—the likelihood of someone returning to prison within five years of their release—is over 60%. Graduates of this program? Less than 3% ever go back inside. But it’s not rocket science. It’s what happens when you give someone access to art, creativity, and education. Those are tools essential to human development and growth. When you strip that away and grind someone down, removing their individuality and humanity, what do you think is going to happen? But if you create capacity for empathy to grow and for someone to flourish, then they will flourish.

Q: As a director, what was the most challenging part of telling this story, and what was the most rewarding aspect of the project for you ?

Greg Kwedar: The most challenging part was those six years of development—just getting to the point of making it, finding the story. Once you’re there and doing it, that’s a gift. Being on set making a film is such a precious thing that doesn’t come around often. In eight years of being a feature director, I’ve directed 35 days total between two films. When you recognize that, there’s just a ton of gratitude for doing it. As for the most rewarding part? The most rewarding part was creating a space for men who have endured so much to have the stage again, to communicate their story to the entire world.

Q: As a co-writer and producer, how did your vision of the film evolve from its initial conception to the final product ?

Clint Bentley: I really think it was in the story that it evolved the most. The tone that Greg wanted to hit from the beginning is in the final film—it’s the one he wanted to capture at the beginning of the process, all those eight years ago. Six years before we started shooting, it was amazing but really difficult to figure out how to structure a script in a way to capture what Greg was trying to capture and what RTA was doing in their rooms and programs. But that was the hardest part. What didn’t change? What I didn’t realize, and what I’m just so blown away by in the final film, is the joy that comes out of it. Even the joy that comes through the sadness. I was telling Greg the other day, it kind of feels like a hangout movie in a way, rather than like another genre. That’s really hard to do and really fun.

Q: Both of you have worked together before. How did your collaboration on Sing Sing differ from your previous projects ?

Greg Kwedar: We’ve been working together for almost 14 years. We’ve made three films together now, and Clint’s actually working on a fourth film we wrote together. What’s beautiful about how we work together is that we’re both distinct directors first and foremost, but we share such a sense of values, and there’s a lot of overlap in our taste and the way we see the world, and the things we’re curious about. We’ve found this unique way of working—writing together and helping the filmmaker find what Clint was just saying: finding a way to accomplish the instinct around a film. Then, being in support of whoever is directing as a producer. By doing that and being almost deferential to another’s vision, when you’re a director who often has your own vision and point of view, it shapes you as a filmmaker. There’s an inherent humility in the process that I think is valuable in working in such a collaborative medium.

Q: The film received standing ovations and incredible reviews after its premiere at the Toronto International Film Festival. How have these reactions influenced your feelings about the film's future and its potential for awards recognition ? 

Clint Bentley: The amazing thing about that was, yes, it was a beautiful standing ovation at Toronto, which we had never really experienced before. But the truly magical thing was that a lot of the men who were in the film were standing up there with us. Just to see the love that the audience gave them—that was the first time we brought it out to the public, anywhere. I think now we’re used to how much audiences love them, but thinking back to that moment, just seeing the reaction they were getting and the joy people had being around them—that was better than any award that will ever come or not come.

Q: A24 has positioned Sing Sing as a major awards contender. What does it mean for you as filmmakers to have this kind of backing and support ?

Greg Kwedar: From A24, it was a rare connection. We made a movie in a very community-driven approach, in a way that I think a lot of movies aren’t. I think a lot of movies are designed to be that way, but it doesn’t always happen that way—where everyone feels a real sense of ownership over the movie, and brought their best work forward collectively. What was rare was meeting a studio that operates in a very community-driven way. They really empower their team to get out, make things happen, make decisions, and have innovative ideas. It was this wonderful heart connection. The movie personally resonated with them as well. They were bold—they had huge ambition for what it could be, and actually expanded our own belief of what was possible. As Clint said, being in the awards conversation is a strange place to be, because we made something in a very community-driven way that, through awards, can get positioned as individual accomplishments. But really, we want to celebrate and lift up this entire project. What awards can do for independent films in terms of giving oxygen and a reason for audiences to see it—that’s worth it. So people around the world will see this story, meet these men, and connect with the themes we’ve talked about.

Q: The audience at the Deauville American Film Festival really applauded at the end of the screening. How does it feel to see international audiences connect with the story on such a deep emotional level ?

Clint Bentley: That was amazing. We’re back at Deauville after being here eight years ago with Transpecos, Greg’s first film as a director. It was amazing to see. We haven’t shared it with an international audience in this capacity, and to see their love for it—even reading subtitles on the bottom of the screen—was mind-blowing. It was really beautiful.

Greg Kwedar: There’s something about French passion with an emotional story like this. What’s been amazing is hearing, just being out on the street, from people who were in the audience, passionately saying what the movie made them feel. That’s been a beautiful experience this week.

Q: Finally, what do you hope is the lasting message viewers take away after watching Sing Sing ?

Greg Kwedar: I hope people recognize the human potential behind the walls. I hope people celebrate the friendships in their lives and recognize that no matter how hard it gets, we can hold on to each other. We can choose joy—it’s a mindset. No matter what the world throws at you or what’s operating against you, we can still have love for each other.

Synopsis:
Divine G, imprisoned in Sing Sing for a crime he didn't commit, finds purpose by performing in a theater troupe with other incarcerated men in this story of resilience, humanity and the transformative power of art.

Sing sing
Directed by Greg Kwedar
Produced by Monique Walton, Clint Bentley, Greg Kwedar
Written by Clint Bentley, Greg Kwedar
Story by Clint Bentley, Greg Kwedar, Clarence Maclin, John Divine G Whitfield
Based on The Sing Sing Follies by John H. Richardson, Breakin' The Mummy's Code by Brent Buell
With Colman Domingo, Clarence Maclin, Sean San José, Paul Raci
Music: Bryce Dessner
Director of photography: Pat Scola
Editing: Parker Laramie
Production companies: Black Bear Pictures, Marfa Peach Company, Edith Productions
Distributed by A24 (USA)
Release date: July 12 (U.S.)
Running time: 105 minutes

Photos and video : Boris Colletier / Mulderville

We would like to thank Greg Kwedar and Clint Bentley for taking the time to answer our questions