Interview - John Wick chapter 4: Light on the shadow men : the French stuntmen

By Mulder, Paris, siège Metropolitan FilmExport, 13 march 2023

The John Wick saga has established itself as the best of the action movies. The latest  movie shows even more impressive stunts. Paradoxically,  media doesn't talk much about the men behind the scenes who make the success of this saga: the stuntmen. But, cock-a-doodle-doo! For John Wick chapter 4,  which takes place in Paris, Chad Stahelski called on a French team: "a fantastic team, the best I've ever had". Here's our review  at the meeting with Laurent Demianoff, choreographer and stunt coordinator, and Vincent Bouillon, stunt double for Keanu Reeves. 

Q: How did you come to work on this shoot ? 

Laurent Demianoff : Chad Stahelski contacted me a year before the shoot. He wanted to use a French choreographer for specific actions. I have practiced Japanese and Chinese martial arts, MMA and boxing. Scott Rogers is the stunt coordinator. I build my team, (about 50 stuntmen). Vincent Bouillon is validated by Chad Stahelski himself. A specialist in acrobatic martial arts, Vincent undergoes intensive training. We prepare the stunts, in videoconference with Los Angeles. The American team arrives in Berlin in March 2021 for the preparation (Babelsberg Studios). I will arrive in June.  
N.B. : This intensive 18-week shoot began in July in Berlin, at Babelsberg Studios, before coming to Paris in October, to end in Jordan.

Q: How do you work with Chad Stahelski, the director ? 

LD: Chad has a high standard of performance. He doesn't show if he's satisfied. It's a way for him to keep raising the bar, to keep the pressure on. But it's not bad stress. It's a pressure for everyone to do their best. Chad is attached to Japanese culture, to the figure of the samurai. John Wick is a Ronin. He stopped serving his master. This culture is found in John Wick's style: aikido, judo, jujitsu. There are signatures: when the character turns 180° before going up, it is aikido. Then, there is a will that  John Wick’s character takes more importance, therefore to put in front of him higher fighters who will increase the intensity of the fights. The choreographic research is more advanced, to renew itself, not to remain on the same line. Then, all this work, when you see it on the big screen, the magic happens. 

Q: John Wick is physically very badly treated in this film, is it complicated to be the stunt double of Keanu Reeves ?

Vincent Bouillon : Basically, it's complicated to be Keanu Reeves' stunt double. He is talented. You try to help him in this project, in the approach of the character. The John Wick character is wounded a lot . It's the perfect role for a stuntman. The director Chad Stahelski ask for a high level of stunts. He is Keanu's former stuntman in the Matrix movies. Then he became stunt chief, stunt coordinator, second unit director, and then director. You have to be hooked physically and mentally. But once you're shooting, it's a total blast. 

Q: Did Chad give you any advice on how to be Keanu's stand-in ?

VB: Chad doesn't talk much. He doesn't give advice. But if it's not right, he says so. 

LD: Chad had his own way of doubling Keanu Reeves. There was a key moment during the preparation. At the first rehearsal with all the stuntmen and the American crew, the level of expectation was high. It was a crucial moment for Vincent. Chad asked him, "What's your name? - "Vincent" - "No, wrong answer, your name is John Wick". It's not about being Keanu stunt double. You have to become John Wick. Vincent got into the character. Chad re-questioned Vincent during another intense stunt. He was under pressure. And this time, he gave the right answer. He was John Wick. 

Q: Keanu Reeves says "I don't do stunts. Stuntmen do the stunts."

LD: He sums it up. The fights are choreographed. He doesn't need to be doubled for those fights. Afterwards, for the stunts, any actor, whoever he is, is going to need a stuntman, even Tom Cruise. Even when some of the stunts can be made by the actors, it's unconscious to send them doing it. It's stupid to put an actor in flames, to do a human torch.  The stunt double also serves as a crash test in the stunt development. Tom Cruise does crazy stunts. He risks his life. But before, there is a whole logistical preparation. The stuntmen will get him to safety.

Q: Were the stunts very risky ?

VB: We are on a movie directed by a former stuntman, who went through all the steps. He knows the job. With his company 87 Eleven Action Design, he created one of the best team in the stunts world. He surrounds himself with highly professional. There is a lot of reflexion, preparation, and trust above all. 

LD: The risk factor is always there.  The stunt coordinator is  here to minimize the risk. But the risk is real for the stunt double, especially in an action film. The stairs of Montmartre, it's concrete, the car is real sheet metal, ...

Q : How do you deal with fear ? 

VB: When we have a stunt to do, we are aware of the risk. We use the stress so that it carries us. You have to have this fear, but not focus on the fear, not think about the consequences. I have to be aware of what I am going to do. I'm going to place my body like this. I use that fear to not hurt myself. If you have a fear point and you jump with it, it means your mind is not fully in the stunt. It is on the consequences of the stunt. You have to go 100%, without holding back. 

LD: Fear is a defense process of the human being. Should we run away or fight the danger? Stress is something you have to embrace and master. If one of my stuntman has no stress, I will ask myself questions. Perhaps the stuntman has not apprehended all the risks. Even when you highly  masters the movement, in this job, you must always be aware of the danger. The stress is there to remind you. 

Q: What was the stunt that required the most work from you ?

LD: It was the scene shot in the Babelsberg studios with the aerial camera, a tribute to video games. The synchronization had to be perfect, with timing of the movements. A very big preparation. Then there are the stunts on the stairs leading to the Sacred Heart. 

Q: How does it feel to work with Donnie Yen ? 

LD: It hurts! (laughs). In Asia, the working process is different. In China, Japan, Thailand, it's harder. The stuntman is ready to take a hit. It's cultural. There is no VFX.  A Thai boxer takes 400 hits in a night, during fights. So to be paid 4 times more on a movie and only get a few punches... In the West, we have a different approach to humans and fights.  With his international career, Donnie Yen has adapted to this way of shooting. In fact, you have to be able to follow him. His speed of execution is impressive. He is precise. For any stuntman, shooting with Donnie Yen is a great moment. 

Q: Besides the John Wick saga, what stunt films have you been inspired by ?

LD: Jackie Chan's movies, a legend, the master of action. He remains the reference. He produces himself, so there are no insurance problems. He does the stunts himself. If he gets hurt, he shoots with his plaster. I particularly like Operation Condor, the king fu fighting, the comedy, …

VB: Same, and in another style Jet Li, Bruce Lee... Jackie Chan put the light on stunts, action movies, on our job. 

Q: What about John Wick 5? Have you been called ? 

LD / VB: No comment! ( So we'll stay with Chad Stahelski's answer to the press: "Keanu and I will take a break.")

During the premiere organized at the Grand Rex in the presence of the director Chad Stahelski and the actor Keanu Reeves, stuntmen came to show the extent of their talents in front of the amazed eyes of the spectators: 

Laurent Demianoff (Fight coordinator & Fight Choreographer)
The fight coordinator is the one who sets up the fights with the help of the choreographers. The fight choreographer is the one who imagines the fight sequences or gun fights. For his part, he was also a fight choreographer, especially for the actions taking place in France in the film. Son of the pioneer of Kung Fu in France, Georges Demianoff, Martial Arts have been an important part of his life since his early childhood. At first a master of Martial Arts, his skills allowed him to become a stuntman, choreographer and coordinator of many French and international films.

Vincent Bouillon (Stunt double (John Wick/Keanu Reeves stand-in)
A stunt double is a stuntman who doubles for an actor or actress during risky scenes, or in scenes involving complicated technical movements. Vincent Bouillon is known for John Wick: Chapter 4 (2023), Hunger Games: The Rebellion - Part 1 (2014) and Sense8 (2015).

Synopsis : 
John Wick discovers a way to defeat the criminal organization known as the Big Table. But before he can gain his freedom, he must confront a new enemy that has forged powerful alliances across the world and is turning John's former friends into enemies.

John Wick: Chapter 4
Directed by Chad Stahelski
Produced by Chad Stahelski, Basil Iwanyk, Erica Lee
Written by Shay Hatten, Michael Finch
Based on the characters by Derek Kolstad
Starring Keanu Reeves, Laurence Fishburne, Lance Reddick, Donnie Yen, Rina Sawayama, Shamier Anderson, Bill Skarsgård, Scott Adkins, Hiroyuki Sanada, Clancy Brown, Ian McShane
Director of photography : Dan Laustsen
Editing: Evan Schiff
Music: Tyler Bates, Joel J. Richard
Production Companies: Thunder Road Pictures, 87North Productions
Distributed by Lionsgate (USA), Metropilitan filmExport (France)
Release date: March 22, 2023 (France), March 24, 2023 (USA)

A big thank you to Arthur Asparian for the photo of Laurent Demianoff's French stunt team with the agreement of Arthur Asparian (Laurent, Vincent, Chad, Keanu, Alex Lopoka, Aurelia Agel, Florian Beaumont, Arthur Aspaturian)